The Argument I Didn't Want to Have

Earlier today, I posted the following. Then the comments rolled in. And I tried to keep my cool (see underlined passages). And then I failed.

Original Post

1. Dismantle the Department of Education.

2. Allow states to determine standards and content in public schools.

3. Middle states ignore evolution and general STEM.

4. Students from middle states cannot get jobs in the new STEM-based economy.

5. Citizens of middle states remain mired in low-paying service jobs.

6. Populace of middle states feels ignored by Washington, gets duped, and elects liars who promise to bring back manufacturing.

7. Repeat.

Comments

[Friend of a Friend]

Wow. That’s painting with a wide brush.

SMB admittedly. time will tell...

[High School Acquaintance (HSA)] Um, I have to comment on this one. Having lived in the “middle states” as you call them. I have to say, you are way way off base and comments like these are why your side lost. I once was a left wing liberal but became so disgusted with their condescending attitudes towards anytime who didn’t think like them. I can tell you people make just as much money as people on the east coast.

SMB [HSA], I can see from your and [Friend of Friend]’s comments that I have insulted people with this. Although it was not my intention, I am sorry.

SMB My intention was to point out how short-sighted it is to gut the Department of Education and leave standards to the states, as several states—Oklahoma and Kansas, to name two—have voiced support for outlawing the teaching of evolution in public school. To deny students proper science education (of which evolution is a key part) is short-changing them when it comes to preparing them for the workforce.

SMB My style was flippant (I was trying to be clever), but my content was sincere: please put education first, particularly STEM education. For the good of all Americans.

SMB And one more time: THANK YOU for speaking up and calling me on what you see as unfair. It does affect me and I really try to listen. I am not perfect, and I am as opinionated as it gets, but I don’t wish to be callous or mean. Keep it up.

HSA My wife is a public school teacher and she would definitely disagree. As far as teaching evolution, it is just that, a theory, and they didn’t outlaw teaching it there. I lived in both states. She teaches in Vermont and is mostly appalled at the rude things some of her coworkers will say to here just because she is from the Midwest and they just assume things.

SMB Evolution is a scientific theory, which is different from a layman’s theory. In science, theory simply means a testable hypothesis; it never “graduates” into anything else, it only disappears if it is wrong. Evolution has not disappeared because it is right. Please read up on this before you answer; your contention that it is “just” a theory shows that you are not as informed as you can be.

HSA She also has mixed feelings about DeVos but she hates teachers unions as she feels they undermine the true purpose of being a teacher and she says common core is crap and needs to go. It is dumbing down our kids and just teaching them how to take a test

SMB As for judging others by their geography, we can look at the electoral map and see people’s leanings. Again, not perfect, but telling.

HSA To me it is just a theory and even Darwin questioned it at the end of his life. There is too many holes in it. Just my opinion.

SMB [HSA], as I said, you are showing how little you know of evolution. Don’t presume to dismiss 99% of the scientific community because of a few doubts you’ve overheard. Read about it in peer-reviewed journals, and then I’d be glad to discuss your doubts in depth.

HSA Sarah, I was an animal science major. And FYI we had several science teachers at [Medway High School] that didn’t swallow it all either

SMB “Other people don’t either” is not a valid argument. HSA, I can’t do this and not start insulting you, so let’s stop.

HSA Just do some fact checking. Remember eohippus? Never existed. Heckels chart of embryos? Wrong. Just to name a few (and they were deemed wrong in the 50s) but they still teach it. Why? And I think it take far more faith to believe we came from slime and all these things had to come together at exactly the same moment and boom here we are.

SMB [HSA] I DO NOT NEED TO FACT CHECK. YOU NEED TO READ REPUTABLE JOURNALS. PLEASE STOP.

HSA See, the left is “open” to discussion as long as you agree with them. Hence, Trump is president

***and here’s where I snapped. Sigh.***

SMB I’m open to discussion with those who can discuss the topic in a well-informed manner. Ok, let’s go. What is your alternative to evolution? Creationism? Here is a question: How old do you believe the Earth to be? We can go from there, once you give me some background on your beliefs.

SMB If you are Catholic, note Pope Francis’s statement: “[God] created beings and allowed them to develop according to the internal laws that he gave to each one, so that they were able to develop and to arrive and their fullness of being. He gave autonomy to the beings of the universe at the same time at which he assured them of his continuous presence, giving being to every reality. And so creation continued for centuries and centuries, millennia and millennia, until it became which we know today, precisely because God is not a demiurge or a magician, but the creator who gives being to all things... The Big Bang, which nowadays is posited as the origin of the world, does not contradict the divine act of creating, but rather requires it. The evolution of nature does not contrast with the notion of creation, as evolution presupposes the creation of beings that evolve.” h/t Rich E.

SMB Do you understand the distinction between macroevolution and microevolution, and how they are similar, and how they are different? Do you understand the theory, most famously supported by Steven Jay Gould (all of whose books I recommend highly), of punctuated equilibrium?

SMB What is your view of genetic mutations—I assume you believe in them—and their frequency over time? Have you read much about telomeres and their role in cancer?

SMB The eye has evolved separately several times in Earth’s history, and many examples of “intermediate” eyes are still living today (disproving one common objection to evolution, namely, how can an eye evolve).

SMB Guidelines such as Foster’s rule can tell us much about not only evolution, but also plate tectonics (do you believe in that?). For instance, size differences will often signal a species’s existence on an island, and marsupials evolved separately once Australia separated from the other continents, explaining their preponderance there, their presence in the Americas, and their absence elsewhere. Perhaps you have read a recent article in Nature that discussed the divergence of marsupials in the Jurassic. Do you dispute those findings?

SMB A lot of anti-evolutionists, perhaps even yourself, point to a lack of “intermediate” fossils (aka the missing link). These doubts have been debunked numerous times; see the Wikipedia article, a list of transitional fossils: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

SMB To go back to the definition of a scientific theory--you seem to have been absent the day they taught this in your animal science classes: “Theories are hypotheses that have ‘graduated’; they are comprehensive explanations of the available hard evidence. Scientific theories are not the opposite of facts; they are actually superior to facts in the hierarchy of terms because they explain facts. And while it is true that scientific theories can never really be ‘proven,’ they can be confirmed through prediction, testing, experimentation and observation—which is exactly what has happened to evolution for the past 150 years.” (quote from Tyler Francke)

SMB I do not accept evolution on faith, nor do I take it for granted that other people have proven it and rest on their word. I have studied it all my life because I find it fascinating. It is more than Darwin and an ancient chart of a monkey turning into a human. It is a beautiful, complex-yet-simple, and very VERY important part of our world. Being ignorant of it—even ignorant that it exists—is a huge handicap to any student who wishes to make her career in science, medicine, engineering, or technology.

SMB [HSA], you there?

SMB [HSA] Oh, and by the way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eohippus; you spelled Haeckel wrong, and his work was in the beginning of the 20th century, why would I care that his theories were no longer held? His work was a hypothesis that has been disproven, and other more successful ones have taken its place. That. Is. Science.